We are often asked about New York school bus tickets under Vehicle And Traffic Law Section 1174(a). They are commonly enforced in order to protect you entering and exiting children.
A New York school bus tickets carries a whopping 5 points and a fine of $250 to $400 for a first offense. For a second conviction, the fine is $600 to $750, and for a third conviction the fine is $750 to $1,000. The high fine amounts reflect the Legislature’s desire to deter these dangerous violations.
Of course, these ranges of fines do not include the $70 additional New York State surcharge imposed on all moving violations. Additionally it does not include the Driver Assessment Fee that is imposed on motorists who accumulate 6 or more points on their licenses. This fee is $300 for 6 points and $75 for every point above 6. If a motorist has any other points, a school bus conviction will make him or her subject to the Driver Assessment Fee.
However, there another issue involving school bus tickets issued under VTL 1174(a). It is not widely known (or enforced) but a judge can also impose up to 30 days in jail for a first violation, and 180 for a second or third violation.
Another cost of a school bus ticket conviction involves your automobile insurance rates. By law, a New York insurance company cannot raise your rates for one school bus ticket if you have an otherwise clean record. For multiple convictions, however, your auto insurance rates can be hiked. The only option to address a hike is to take the Driver Safety Class that takes 10% off your insurance rates.
As you can see, there are many costs associated with school bus tickets. You therefore should always stop when approaching a stopped school bus.
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I was driving into the city and was sitting behind cars stopped at a green light. There was an open lane on my left so I took it and drove up to see what the hold up was. As I’m looking to my far right and my car is rolling, but obviously at a slow speed so I could see what was happening. By the time I got far up enough where the other cars and buses weren’t blocking my view anymore, I notice the school bus and a split second later a couple of cops on my left yelling “Whoa whoa whoa pull over right here!”. I did not intentionally mean to pass it, and it’s not like I sped off. I barely got anywhere by the time they told me to pull over. What’s the best way out of this mess??? I have pretty much nothing on my record, and am amazed at the 5 pts that I supposedly just got hit with…
AJ,
You should fight this serious ticket. Five points is a lot to get especially for one incident. How you fight it depends at which court it is pending.
Call us for a free consultation. We are happy to give you free advice or a free consultation.
Best,
Matthew Weiss
212-683-7373
This morning, i was driving to work Northbound on North Avenue in New Rochelle, NY in bumper to bumper traffic. Two other vehicles, as well as myself were asked to pull over by a New Rochelle Police Officer. The Officer then requested my Driver License. After about 5 minutes, this same officer re-appears with a woman police officer. He sends her up to my vehicle, and she asks me if he told me why i was pulled over. I replied that he did not, and she explains that there was a stopped schhol bus with flashing red lights stopped on the South bound side, and that i drove right past it. North Avenue is two lanes in each direction, and I never saw any such school bus. I was issued a traffic violation for passing the school bus that I didn’t see. I have a clean NYS License, and I’m sure if there was a school bus clearly stopped with flashing red lights, I would have seen it. Like i stated previously, it had just stopped raining and there was bumper to bumper traffic in both directions. What should i do?
Brian,
We recommend that you plead not guilty and fight this NY school bus ticket. because it carries 5 points on your license.
The New Rochelle traffic court is a tough one but you should be able to negotiate this ticket down to a 2- or 3-point ticket.
Good luck.
Matthew Weiss
How do i go about fighting it? Do i just mail it in and plead not guilty, and show up when they tell me, and just be honest and say that i did not see a school bus?
I was driving southbound on North Avenue and got pulled over for not stopping for a northbound school bus. The officer wrote that the school bus had its stop sign out and red lights flashing. My issue is, the bus was a New Rochelle city bus. I don’t think the bus had either a stop sign or red flashing lights, as far as I could tell it was commuters getting on a city bus. I thought I had until 2/7 to return the ticket or appear in person, but then it says to plead not guilty within 48 hours, which have since passed. Is it too late then for me to plead not guilty by mail? And if I do so, do I get a different date for my court appearance? Thanks for the help!
Kbear,
Plead not guilty right away. If you can go to the court in-person that would be best. Otherwise, send it with some type of delivery confirmation. The, follow up with the court to make sure that received your ticket.
Because you are not too late, I think you’ll be all right.
Matthew Weiss
Saw the Albert Leonard bus again today and should have taken a photo, definitely no stop sign and no red flashing lights. Thanks, Matthew.
Kbear,
Hopefully, you can get photos next time you see it. The lack of stop signs and red flashing lights should be a successive defense to your New York school bus ticket.
Good luck!
Matthew Weiss
The officer did not write the VTL number on my ticket. Does this matter? He did however write passed a school bus with red flashing lights in the comment box. I’m kind of confused on how to go about fighting this ticket. I mailed it back and plead not guilty. Any other advice you can offer? I’ve never been to traffic court in my life, so i don’t know what to expect.
According to my research of Section 238.2 of the NYS V & T Law, it reads as follows: “a description of the charged violation INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO A REFERENCE TO THE APPLICABLE TRAFFIC RULE OR PROVISION OF THIS CHAPTER.” This space is blank on my ticket. No reference has been made to a specific traffic law. Section 238.2(b) reads as follows “If any information which is required to be inserted on a notice of violation is omitted from the notice of violation, misdescribed, or illegible, the violation shall be dismissed upon application of the person charged with the violation.” Shouldn’t my ticket be dismissed due to the omission of a specific traffic law number on the ticket?
Brian, VTL Section 238(2) falls under Article 2-B of the Vehicle And Traffic Law entitled “ADJUDICATION OF PARKING INFRACTIONS”. It does NOT apply to moving violations such as failure to stop for a school bus.
At the New York Traffic Violations Bureau, the policy is to honor the description of the offense over the VTL code. Therefore, I believe most judges will honor the description and forgive the omission of a VTL code. Nevertheless, I would definitely make the argument. With the right judge, you might win.
Good luck.
Matthew Weiss
will my car insurance go up for failure to stop for a school bus? This is my first violation.
John,
If you have any otherwise clean record, the you auto insurance rates should not increase from one School Bus ticket. You should check with your insurance company to make sure, however.
We still recommend fighting it because 5 points is a lot to get in one shot.
Matthew Weiss
Brian, i got the same exact ticket on the same exact day and also was on north ave. Have you pleaded yet?
John,
Brian retained our firm to fight this ticket. Feel free to call me if you want to discuss how each other’s ticket may help with your respective defenses.
Thanks
Matthew Weiss
212-683-7373
Thank Matthew,
If they do not reduce the fine or points, how long does the violation stay on my driving record and what kind of fine would I be looking at for my first violation?
John,
Points last for 18 months from the date offense for DMV purposes and 36 months from the date of conviction for insurance purposes.
The fine for a first offense of this nature is roughly $200.
Matthew Weiss
yesterday i was driving mission blvd two lane each direction, i was on the the traffic light
is red, on the Wright of me two cars and one car behind me. I observed a school bus ahead of me on Wright side of the street parked. Light turn green i proceed along with other cars (there was no flashing red or the arm extended) the moment i passed the bus there was CHP in the front of the bus sign-ling behind me at that moment i looked at my speed its within the speed limit, i said to my self well i don’t have plates on my car because its new, that shouldn’t be a problem. Come to fined out he stopped because the school bus. after stopping she asked if i saw the stop singe arm extended my reply was now, asked again if i saw the light flashing red again my answer was no. then i asked here how come the other three cars didn’t stop, how come you didn’t stop them, her answer i cannot stop every body. then i asked her since you were parked in the front of the bus and you are inside your car were you looking through the rear mirror to watch the bus and the traffic she said yes. she still gave me the ticket, but i insisted on her to write on the back of her ticket copy the question i asked. i need some feed back from the knowledgeable people on this. thanks to every body
Abraham,
You should plea not guilty and fight this ticket. It carries 5 points and can hurt your auto insurance rates.
Matthew Weiss
Matthew,
Is the New Rochelle court an “all or nothing” court, or do I have a chance to get the fine and points reduced. If i do get found guilty, do you have any idea how much my insurance premium would go up for my first offense.? I have heard of a 25% increase but Im not sure. I am not the primary driver on the insurance, my mother is and I am just a driver under her name, does that make a difference? Also, even if I get my points reduced will that matter for my insurance since the conviction is still gonna say “failure to stop for school bus”?
John,
The New Rochelle traffic court does negotiate and, if you work out a deal, the conviction will be the lesser charge (not “failure to stop for a school bus’).
Given your clean record, your insurance likely will not increase with a conviction but please contact your insurance company and check. Either way, we strongly recommend that you fight this ticket and obtain a reduction.
Matthew Weiss
Matthew,
I pleaded not guilty, they gave me a pre trial conference date to meet with a prosecutor but it says that it is not a trial. What is a pre trial conference and will my court date be much later than that date? Also, can I ask to reconcile? I received this ticket on September 7th, if i end up getting prosecuted will the points and violation remain on my record 18months or 3 years from the prosecution date or the date i received the ticket?
My son who was 17 was driving home from college was pulled over by a police office. He was issued a ticket for failure to stop for a bus. My son was coming south bound on a four lane route, two going south and two going north. The officer pulled three cars over, one being my sons. Where he was pulled over was a heavy traffic area, being that he just started to drive on his own two months ago, he was paying attention to the traffic. He said he never saw any bus. He pleaded not guilty and we are waiting for a trial date. Meanwhile, we are concern about the points, our insurance going up and possibly jail time. This is truly an honest mistake. Can you give us any advice? Thank you!
Dee,
Given the seriousness of the charge and your son’s young age, I think you should consult with a NY traffic lawyer to help you.
Matthew Weiss
Matthew,
I pleaded not guilty, they gave me a pre trial conference date to meet with a prosecutor but it says that it is not a trial. What is a pre trial conference and will my court date be much later than that date? Also, can I ask to reconcile? I received this ticket on September 7th, if i end up getting prosecuted will the points and violation remain on my record 18months or 3 years from the prosecution date or the date i received the ticket?
John,
A conference is where you can “reconcile” or negotiate a reduction. Points last for 18 months from the date of offense for DMV purposes and 36 months from the date of conviction for insurance purposes.
Hope this helps.
Matthew Weiss
I got a ticket that same morning in New Rochelle on North ave I had a pre trial conference today Oct.26 I am going to trial how should I deal with this . I am not sure what to do.
Michelle,
Prior to the trial, you should conference the case and see what, if any, plea deal will be offered. If you’re offered a 2- or 3-point ticket, this is pretty good and you should consider accepting it.
If are not offered a reduction or do not accept an offered settlement, then your only option is to proceed to trial.
Good luck.
Matthew Weiss
In the past week I have had two instances with stopped school busses that I am not sure what the law requires / allows. In neither case did I receive a ticket however I would like to know what the law is if I come accross the situations again.
Scenario 1) School bus is stopped at a 4 way stop sign with red lights flashing. I come to complete stop on the cross street to the street that the bus is on. The lights are still flashing, no children are crossing the street can I proceed to go staight ahead in front of the bus?
Scenario 2) A bus is stopped in the north bound lane of a divided boulevard with red lights flashing, are the cars in southbound lane still required to stop?
Jim,
Below is the full text for the “school bus law”.
Scenario 1: This is not a violation. Section 1174 only applies to vehicles meeting or overtaking from either direction school bus (or stopped behind it). It does not cover cross traffic. With that said, if you are near the bus, I would remain stopped to avoid a ticket and, more importantly, avoid getting involved in an accident with a child.
Scenario 2: Yes, cars on the opposite side of a roadway are required to stop for a school bus. This is the “meeting” portion of VTL 1174.
Great questions! Thanks for submitting them.
Matthew Weiss
S 1174. Overtaking and passing school bus. (a) The driver of a vehicle upon a public highway, street or private road upon meeting or overtaking from either direction any school bus marked and equipped as provided in subdivision twenty of section three hundred seventy-five of this chapter which has stopped on the public highway, street or private road for the purpose of receiving or discharging any passengers, or which has stopped because a school bus in front of it has stopped to receive or discharge any passengers, shall stop the vehicle before reaching such school bus when there is in operation on said school bus a red visual signal as specified in subdivision twenty of section three hundred seventy-five of this chapter and said driver shall not proceed until such school bus resumes motion, or until signaled by the driver or a police officer to proceed. For the purposes of this section, and in addition to the provisions of section one hundred thirty-four of this chapter, the term “public highway” shall mean any area used for the parking of motor vehicles or used as a driveway located on the grounds of a school or of a board of cooperative educational services facility or any area used as a means of access to and egress from such school or facility.
(b) The driver of such school bus, when receiving or discharging passengers who must cross a public highway, street or private road,
shall instruct such passengers to cross in front of the bus and the driver thereof shall keep such school bus halted with red signal lights
flashing until such passengers have reached the opposite side of such highway, street or private road. Whether such passengers are crossing
such highway street or private road or discharging to the same side of such highway, street or private road, the driver of such bus shall keep
such school bus halted with red signal lights flashing until such passengers are at least fifteen feet from the bus and either off the
highway, street or private road or on a sidewalk.
(c) Every person convicted of a violation of subdivision (a) of this section shall: for a first conviction thereof, be punished by a fine of
not less than two hundred fifty dollars nor more than four hundred dollars or by imprisonment for not more than thirty days or by both such
fine and imprisonment; for a conviction of a second violation, both of which were committed within a period of three years, such person shall
be punished by a fine of not less than six hundred dollars nor more than seven hundred fifty dollars or by imprisonment for not more than one
hundred eighty days or by both such fine and imprisonment; upon a conviction of a third or subsequent violation, all of which were
committed within a period of three years, such person shall be punished by a fine of not less than seven hundred fifty dollars nor more than one
thousand dollars or by imprisonment for not more than one hundred eighty days or by both such fine and imprisonment.
(d) For the purposes of this section, the term “passengers” shall mean those persons designated in paragraph (d) of subdivision twenty of
section three hundred seventy-five of this chapter.
I was driving around New Rochelle this morning trying to find an address. I saw this school bus right in front of me. But it did not have it’s stop sign and the red flashing light on. In fact while in front of me I saw the bus started moving at a slow pace. Because I saw no stop sign and I saw the bus kept going, so I kept going as well. That is until a policeman told me to pull over and saw the complete opposite of what was happening. He said that he saw the stop sign was out along with the red flashing light. My record is clean but seeing that I could get a whooping 5 points really scares me. I gave the reason to the policeman stating what I saw. But he still gave me the ticket anyway. What should I do??
LBR,
You should plea not guilty to your school bus ticket. The New Rochelle traffic court is tough (one of the toughest in Westchester County) but not impossible. Five points is a lot so by fighting it you hopefully can negotiate a more favorable result
Matthew Weiss
Here is my question. I was stopped yesterday on route 9 in wappingers falls, ny on a 4 lane divided highway w at least a lane’s width median in the middle for a school bus that was stopped on the opposite side of the road. Did this law recently change to include this senario? I was not issued a ticket, thankfully. Not to mention if I had stopped I would have most certainly been rear ended by all the idiots on the road who were speeding.
Carolyn,
I believe that you are required to stop for a school bus under those circumstances. I do not think that the median makes a difference.
Glad you didn’t get a ticket.
Matthew Weiss
Today is was on my way home from school and was driving when I heard a screech and I looked in my rear view mirror to see a bus stopped and the traffic behind me stopped as well. I was in the opposite lane but going the in the same direction. I don’t get pulled over or anything. I now see my mistake. No cops were in sight. But now I know to be more careful and more attentive. Does this still mean I can et fined? Even if there were nO police and the bus had JUST stopped as I was going by it?
Cilla250,
You will not be fined or ticketed at this point. In the vast majority of the cases, traffic tickets are only issued on the spot.
Matthew Weiss
Yesterday, I unknowingly passed a school bus stopped on the opposite side, in Great Neck, NY. My view was blocked by a hugh SUV which started getting slower all of a sudden. I thought he/she maybe taking a left turn w/o an indicator as I’ve seen it happen many times here.
So, I decided to pass over and to my chagrin, I saw the bus on the other side just as I passed it. Sure enough, a cop saw me, pulled me over and gave me a ticket.
I otherwise have a clean record. Shall I fight this ticket? How likely is it for the judge to dole out jail time in cases like these(I’m scared about this)?
MS,
Yes, you should definitely fight this ticket as a disobey a school bus ticket carries 5 points and a hefty fine.
Given your clean record, it is very unlikely that you’ll be given jail time if you are convicted of this ticket.
Matthew Weiss
Got a ticket going the other direction of the stopped school bus in Brooklyn there is a large median dividing the opposite lanes. Do you have any law about what kind of median is required before passing a bus in the opposit direction?
Jay,
Below is the text from the school bus law. As you’ll see, there is no exception for road with a center median. Therefore, I don’t think that the “median defense” will work.
Matthew Weiss
§ 1174. Overtaking and passing school bus. (a) The driver of a vehicle
upon a public highway, street or private road upon meeting or overtaking
from either direction any school bus marked and equipped as provided in
subdivision twenty of section three hundred seventy-five of this chapter
which has stopped on the public highway, street or private road for the
purpose of receiving or discharging any passengers, or which has stopped
because a school bus in front of it has stopped to receive or discharge
any passengers, shall stop the vehicle before reaching such school bus
when there is in operation on said school bus a red visual signal as
specified in subdivision twenty of section three hundred seventy-five of
this chapter and said driver shall not proceed until such school bus
resumes motion, or until signaled by the driver or a police officer to
proceed. For the purposes of this section, and in addition to the
provisions of section one hundred thirty-four of this chapter, the term
“public highway” shall mean any area used for the parking of motor
vehicles or used as a driveway located on the grounds of a school or of
a board of cooperative educational services facility or any area used as
a means of access to and egress from such school or facility.
Its a little crazy because its illegal to cross in the middle of the street. Any bus driver that would allow little kids to cross a large 4 lane highway in the middle of the street is neglegant per se. Stopping in the opposite direction of such a highway could cause rear-end collisions.
Jay,
Unfortunately, as currently written, the law does not favor you.
Matthew Weiss
A friend of mine was driving in Merrick NY today and was at a intersection where he turned left. On his right (meaning perpendicular to my friend at the intersection) was a stopped school bus with lights flashing but he didn’t see the lights flashing because it was very sunny and he didn’t see a stop sign either. He said the bus driver honked at him and appeared to write down something. Can a bus driver and not a police office cause my friend to get a ticket in this case or points? How can they know who was driving the car anyway ?
Glenn,
No, a bus driver may NOT issue a traffic ticket.
Matthew Weiss
Yesterday, I was stopped by a police officer because I failed to stop for a school bus. He gave me a traffic ticket. I was pulling out of a parking lot and turning to the right. I was in front of the bus and driving away from the bus. The school bus parked approx. 40 feet away from my car when I was leaving the parking lot.
Karen,
Illegally passing a school bus is a pretty serious ticket. It carries 5 points and roughly a $250 fine. We therefore recommend that you plead not guilty and fight this ticket. How you fight it depends on a few variables including the court, your driving record, etc. Feel free to call us if you want to discuss further.
Matthew Weiss
212-683-7373
I was on 85th, crossing York. Traffic was heavy, and an ambulance was trying to get down 85th. I crossed York, and pulled over to the curb, stopping behind a municipal bus and across the street from a school There were a number of school buses around, and some had stop signs up. When it became clear that I was not in the way anymore (the ambulance turned left onto York), I started to pull away from the curb. At that time, I did not see any buses with stop signs open or flashing lights, although it was in front of a school at 2:30. I was instantly pulled over (along with what appeared to be about 5 other cars) and ticketed.
What are your thoughts on fighting this ticket? My record is otherwise clean.
Kathleen,
Because this ticket carries 5 points, we recommend that you plead not guilty and fight it. In New York City, traffic tickets are mostly adjudicated at the Traffic Violations Bureau (“TVB”). At the TVB, there are no deals (or plea bargains). You either win or lose.
I wrote an article entitled “Fighting A Traffic Ticket At The Traffic Violations Bureau“. It should help you understand better what your up against.
Matthew Weiss
I was going to my college through Bell Blvd and 75ave Queens. there was a school bus parked near a school and the bus had no sign of “Stop”. i passed it and there was a cop in the front. there were two more cars that got pulled before me . all of us got a ticket. i pass through that road everyday approximately same time and i stopped when i saw school bus stop sign. this time there was no school bus stop sign and i didn’t stop. what should i do please help.
Satnam Singh,
Because this ticket carries 5 points, we recommend that you plead not guilty and fight it. In New York City, traffic tickets are mostly adjudicated at the Traffic Violations Bureau (“TVB”). At the TVB, there are no deals (or plea bargains). You either win or lose.
I wrote an article entitled “Fighting A Traffic Ticket At The Traffic Violations Bureau“. It should help you understand better what your up against.
Matthew Weiss
I just received a ticket in NYC for passing a stopped school bus. Today I was driving south in the left lane on 9th ave, on the far right lane (adjacent to the curb) there were multiple school buses. There was heavy traffic and I was traveling about 5 miles per hour; the traffic was due to the number of police officers standing in the middle of 9th avenue pulling cars over. My view of the school buses was obstructed by trucks and other vehicles when I drove past the school myself and about 10-15 other vehicles were asked to pull over. This was a total set up, I took pictures of how my view would have been and was wondering if this would help in court.
Thanks for help
Mike,
Because this ticket carries 5 points, we definitely recommend that you plead not guilty and fight it. And, yes, photographs can definitely help (especially if they can show that your view of the buses was obscured).
Matthew Weiss
My son was driving and I was in passenger seat. We were traveling south on a major roadway with 2 lanes on each side of a wide median. Suddenly, we saw a police car ahead of us blocking the 2 lanes with lights flashing. The officer told us and 5 other drivers to pull into a lot and wait for him. Our car was next to last. He then went to each car one by one and asked for license and registration. My son asked why he was stopped and the officer responded that he passed a stopped school bus on the northbound side of the highway. The officer eventually ran my son’s license and returned with a ticket for passing a school bus. He stated that my son should plead not guilty and meet with him on the court date prior to seeing the judge and this can be discussed because the ticket means 5 points and insurance problems. I have read your previous responses and noticed that insurance rates in NY can’t be raised for one passing school bus infraction, but, if my son pleads to a lesser violation which carries points, his insurance could be affected then; this seems like a “catch 22″. Do any of these details afford a reasonable ground to fight this or should we just split the baby and avoid the 5 points?
Frank B,
I have to correct what you write regarding the effect of a conviction to a traffic ticket. If you son has an otherwise clean record, then pleading guilty to a reduced charge (or a school bus ticket) will NOT affect his auto insurance rates. Under New York law, an insurance company cannot raise your rates for one “small ticket”. The only time that one conviction to a basic traffic ticket can result in your rates being increased is when you plead guilty to speeding 16+ mph or reckless driving.
For further information, read my article entitled “How Traffic Tickets Affect Auto Insurance Rates“.
Matthew Weiss
I have a question concerning stopped school buses. I live in the Albany area, and the other day, I was traveling on a 4 lane road (2 lanes west, and 2 east) split by a turn median. The road was very busy, and I was dealing with a very agrresive driver in my rear. All of a sudden, I heard a horn blast 3 lanes over on the other side of the road. It was a stopped school bus, going in the opposite directin, and I had just passed him. I’m not sure when he stopped, or if I had actually commited an offense. There were no police, and I didn’t get pulled over or ticketed. However, in researching whether I could get a ticket retroactively, I noticed a form on line to report such instances. It’s called “Report of Passing a Stopped School Bus”, and it goes to the Driver Improvement Bureau of the NYS DMV. I know in certain areas, buses have cameras, and so do certain streets, although I don’t know if that is the case here. So I don’t know if the incident was captured, or if anyone reported it. I’ve seen the answers you posted to similiar question, but given the above, would you still agree that I can’t be ticketed for this. The possibility that I passed a stopped school bus bothers me, and I don’t plan on using that road again. It’s just too nuts, especially knowing that buses are stopping on it. I just want to feel this is over. Any help you could provide would be very appreciated.
Richard,
I doubt that the incident was captured or that you will be issued a ticket for disobeying a stopped school bus. This would be extremely rare in New York.
Matthew Weiss